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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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shuttermeshort wrote:
Correct call?!?!?!? you obviously have no idea of the inner workings of Mammoth/June. Rusty in the same sentence claims Mammoth is doing just fine and paying their loans (direct quote) and then bitches about Junes $1.5M dollar (false number) deficit. You are entitled to your opinion but you had better realize that this decision was VERY poor and unfair. 80 people in a community of 300 just lost their jobs WITH NO NOTICE. He effected an entire community and didn't even bother to show up to the meeting. When the people are out on the streets of Mammoth protesting this, the noise is deafening. Forest service, highway patrol, PD, Fire Dept, Mammoth employees in company vehicles, almost every single local business vehicle, and every car that passes through the intersection honks in support. Is this Mammoth attempting damage control? Rusty is obviously scared.


No notice? How about 6 years notice? Rusty made it clear back in 2006 that without development to support necessary investment in June Mtn it would eventually be closed.

Mammoth even closed June already only to give in to community pressure and reopen it.

There was plenty of warning IMO.

Maybe you could provide some insight as to how you know the financial details of June's deficit since you claim Rusty is lying.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:26 am 
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Stump Alley
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SurfnSnowboard wrote:
shuttermeshort wrote:
Correct call?!?!?!? you obviously have no idea of the inner workings of Mammoth/June. Rusty in the same sentence claims Mammoth is doing just fine and paying their loans (direct quote) and then bitches about Junes $1.5M dollar (false number) deficit. You are entitled to your opinion but you had better realize that this decision was VERY poor and unfair. 80 people in a community of 300 just lost their jobs WITH NO NOTICE. He effected an entire community and didn't even bother to show up to the meeting. When the people are out on the streets of Mammoth protesting this, the noise is deafening. Forest service, highway patrol, PD, Fire Dept, Mammoth employees in company vehicles, almost every single local business vehicle, and every car that passes through the intersection honks in support. Is this Mammoth attempting damage control? Rusty is obviously scared.


No notice? How about 6 years notice? Rusty made it clear back in 2006 that without development to support necessary investment in June Mtn it would eventually be closed.

Mammoth even closed June already only to give in to community pressure and reopen it.

There was plenty of warning IMO.

Maybe you could provide some insight as to how you know the financial details of June's deficit since you claim Rusty is lying.


We knew it was in danger once Dave was no longer involved - no lie or argument there. The employees were making menus and setting up for opening the next day when the news was dropped. THAT is no warning.

As far as Junes numbers, I don't know exactly but I do know that majority of June goers are Mammoth pass holders that spend most of their season at June and I'm willing to bet that the income from Mammoth passes is allocated to Mammoth, not June. The fact is that June is a part of MMSA and it is obvious that overall MMSA is doing very well.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:52 am 
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Rodger's Ridge
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Are you kidding me? Did you miss this from March 1st???

"Mammoth Mountain laid off 75 of 359 total year round employees with an average length of service of 10 years. This layoff is the most severe reduction in our work force since 1991 when 150 employees lost their jobs in what is now known as Black Monday."

You call that "doing very well"?

Mammoth had a horrible season this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:07 am 
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Center Bowl
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Location: Home is where the heart is...........
SurfnSnowboard wrote:
Are you kidding me? Did you miss this from March 1st???

"Mammoth Mountain laid off 75 of 359 total year round employees with an average length of service of 10 years. This layoff is the most severe reduction in our work force since 1991 when 150 employees lost their jobs in what is now known as Black Monday."


Just a couple of small clarifications if you will:

1. Actually, it was 80 people that were laid off
2. Some of the individuals (exact number unknown, but the re-hiring is a fact) were re-hired at SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED pay and benefits.

The above is a common trend with many business's irregardless of finances since the beginning of the depression in 2008.
Many business use the "we aren't doing so well" excuse to lay off and re-hire talent at a significantly reduced cost (whether the re-hires are some of the laid off employees and/or are newer and younger talent at a significantly reduced cost) in order to improve the bottom line.

Yes MMSA had a bad year in part due to weather, HOWEVER any business that fails to manage its finances save for a "rainy day" is quite frankly dumb. MMSA does not use advanced staffing models to properly leverage staffing resources (this topic is too complex to get into on the forum).

In my mind here is a timeline of facts that makes me go "hmmmmmm":

1. 2011-2012 Poor snow season
2. 1/10/12 LADWP sues Mammoth Community Water District over water rights
3. January 2012 Intrawest requests and receives refunds related to the Rodeo Grounds plans (believe this happend late January)
4. TOML holding their breath for the MLLA decision in March 2012 (living a fantasy thinking they would not lose).
5. 2/29/12 MMSA announces 75 lay off's (final number 80)
6. 3/23/12 Writ in favor of MLLA
7. 4/1/12- MVP's go on sale with $50 pass cash incentive
8. 4/27/12 Mammoth wins land swap legislation - http://mammothtimes.com/content/mammoth ... egislation
9. 4/30/12 MVP's sale ends
10. 6/20/12 MMSA informs USFS they will be closing June Mtn eff. 6/21/12
Of note:
> 50 days from end of MVP sales period to notification of June Mtn closure
> 1 day notice to USFS and June Mtn employees
11. 6/26/12 The Rodeo Grounds appears on the MLS for sale (89 acres @ 2.9 mil)
12. 7/2/12 TOML becomes insolvent and announces intentions to file for Chapter 9
Of note:
> MLLA announces their intentions to dispute the filing of Chapter 9

Rusty is human and I don't think he relished in having to lay off staff and close a mountain. However, he is the CEO and he is ultimately accountable for his actions in both business and his personal affairs.

I think at the beginning of the year MMSA knew things were bad and would likely get worse. The CEO of a business should ALWAYS have a contingency plan. I don't think MMSA had one nor do I think it planned/saved for "the rainy day."

My humble opinion is MMSA needs to:
1. Accept the fact that it cannot become a top destination resort (at least not in the near 5 year term). There are simply far too many barriers (airport, TOML long-term litigation issues etc.....)
2. Make major changes in the Executive Management team (top down clean up).
3. Get "back to basics" and provide a solid value of services to it's core customers (So Cal) and work to attract out of state guests with true value (not the ritzy destination experience).
> It is an issue when a Southern California family of 6 (2 adults and 4 children) that are upper middle income choose to FLY to Utah for their ski vacation instead of driving or flying up to Mammoth. WHY? Because Mammoth does not cater to families. It is too crowded during the weekends (Fri-Sunday) and far to expensive. Some resorts in Utah offer free lift tickets to 5th and 6th graders (to get them into skiing/boarding). Want a lesson for your child? Guess what, that can be had in Utah for $50 bucks a day including lunch. An entire day! 4 kids that is $200 bucks per day (close to the cost of 2 lift tickets at MM)

I am sure MMSA knows that the ski/board industry is FLAT and actually in decline (there are a plethora of articles on this topic).
There are a couple of areas where there is growth/change (as sited in various Transworld Business articles in 2012):
> China has seen a major increase/interest in the participation in snow sports (I recall seeing a figure of something like 3 million). However, they focus on visiting destination resorts (seen as a status symbol) e.g. Aspen
> Increase in splitboard sales

4. MMSA should carefully re-examine June Mtn. It is unique and I think there are some compliments to MM. I think with the proper forcasting/budgeting, refreshed marketing campaign, adding some events (remember back in the 80's and early 90's there were some major events at June) and taking a look at charging for side country access and some other considerations (e.g. Day care, more promotion of back country classes/guides) they could at minimum break even. Don't give up on June. MMSA needs to FLAUNT the many advantages of June. We had friends that have been riding MM for 5+ years and do you know they DID NOT KNOW JUNE EVEN EXISTED until we took them there March 2012. Once they went to June, they loved it and split their remaining time 50/50 between MM and June (June on Saturdays and MM on Sundays).

I love the towns of Mammoth and June and hope things turn around! However, IHMO I think the remaining litigation (water rights and Chapter 9) will create a further drag on TOML. In fact the Chapter 9 process..........I want to think positive, but the fact that MLLA plans to dispute AND public retirement pensions and unions are involved.............this could get ugly. I would not be surprised to see this case make national headlines in the months to come. In fact, it has the potential to become a precedent setting case of national significance.

There are some serious issues when a police chief gets paid 300K per year and is collecting a CalPers retirement pension at the same time (I think I read something like 200k). There are CalPers regulations around this that are a hot topic right now.

Remember folks.............we are in election season.

The bottom line............it's all about the Benjamins!

Happy 4th and be safe! :)

_________________
I ♥ June Mountain! Keep it open!


Last edited by SnowNBeachAddict on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:50 am 
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Center Bowl
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^Intelligent. Constructive. Realistic. Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:31 pm 
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Stump Alley
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:43 am
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Here's a solution I find appealing:

Ban snowboarding at Mammoth Mountain, but allow it at June Mountain just like the old days.

That will solve the problem with June.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:33 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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egieszl wrote:
Here's a solution I find appealing:

Ban snowboarding at Mammoth Mountain, but allow it at June Mountain just like the old days.

That will solve the problem with June.


Nah let's switch that around and ban skiing at Mammoth and only skiing at June.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:58 am 
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Cornice Bowl
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egieszl wrote:
Here's a solution I find appealing:

Ban snowboarding at Mammoth Mountain, but allow it at June Mountain just like the old days.

That will solve the problem with June.


That won't help June at all. June too closely resembles Bear to warrant the drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:40 am 
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Center Bowl
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:31 am
Posts: 288
Grizzly Barfly wrote:
egieszl wrote:
Here's a solution I find appealing:

Ban snowboarding at Mammoth Mountain, but allow it at June Mountain just like the old days.

That will solve the problem with June.


That won't help June at all. June too closely resembles Bear to warrant the drive.


This past winter Snow Summit-Bear Mt had a better year than June - opened earlier, closed later, better natural snow, and full-coverage snowmaking.

I rarely go up the desert just to ski June. It is 1 day out of a 3 or 5 day Mammoth/June trip.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:32 am 
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Stump Alley
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:43 am
Posts: 77
The four major ski areas in Southern California - Mountain High, Snow Summit, Bear Mountain and Snow Valley each attract more skier visits than June Mountain.

Mountain High and the combination of Snow Summit and Bear Mountain rival some of the best resorts in the country in terms of skier visits.

That's what happens when your ski area resides next to a major metropolitan area.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Climax
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Location: 3 Sheets to the Wind and 4 cards to the Flush
egieszl wrote:
The four major ski areas in Southern California - Mountain High, Snow Summit, Bear Mountain and Snow Valley each attract more skier visits than June Mountain.

Mountain High and the combination of Snow Summit and Bear Mountain rival some of the best resorts in the country in terms of skier visits.

That's what happens when your ski area resides next to a major metropolitan area.


You know what else? I'm a season pass holder at Mammoth, have been since '98, and I probably was subjected to 50-1 the marketing efforts from those resorts that I was from MMSA regarding June. Somebody please tell me which email I missed. Because honestly there were COUNTLESS emails in my in box from MMSA this last decade, and I still can't specifically remember two promoting June Mt. The only one I can remember (I've been scanning my memory for over a week now) is one last season advertising the summer dining at the lodge. Don't tell me you can't make a go of it with this mountain when I've been watching your marketing efforts for 14 years, and can't remember you even marketing it. I'm sure they did, but seriously, can anyone GENUINELY remember as many as TWO email's marketing June?

I don't understand why it seems there is a vendetta vs. an inanimate object such as a ski resort, but there's something palpable going on on these forums (I suspect it's mostly yes-men and cronyism). Starting with the OP having this be his VERY FIRST POST. :fubar:

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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Hemlock Ridge
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Location: Over the hill from Tom's Place
There's a couple of new be's on the forum of late. They're stiring the pot pretty well. Wonder who they really are...

Just sayin'

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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Dave's Run
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Posts: 1227
[/quote] I'm sure they did, but seriously, can anyone GENUINELY remember as many as TWO email's marketingJune? /quote]
Two?....never have seen one. Ever see a simple bill board advertisement cruising up 395? Ever get a special BAF for June only? Come on up have a free lunch on us....never! This Sunday two for one....never! Free one hour lesson with rental and lift ticket purchase...never! Ski Saturday and have a free wax for Sunday...never! And on and on...forever!

There never has been any marketing for June...EVER!

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What now?


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Center Bowl
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:31 am
Posts: 288
Dropn N wrote:
I'm sure they did, but seriously, can anyone GENUINELY remember as many as TWO email's marketingJune? /quote]
Two?....never have seen one. Ever see a simple bill board advertisement cruising up 395? Ever get a special BAF for June only? Come on up have a free lunch on us....never! This Sunday two for one....never! Free one hour lesson with rental and lift ticket purchase...never! Ski Saturday and have a free wax for Sunday...never! And on and on...forever!

There never has been any marketing for June...EVER![/quote]

I remember the $10 Wednesdays.


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 Post subject: Re: Closing June was the correct call.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Dave's Run
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 1227
rphenry wrote:
Dropn N wrote:
I'm sure they did, but seriously, can anyone GENUINELY remember as many as TWO email's marketingJune? /quote]
Two?....never have seen one. Ever see a simple bill board advertisement cruising up 395? Ever get a special BAF for June only? Come on up have a free lunch on us....never! This Sunday two for one....never! Free one hour lesson with rental and lift ticket purchase...never! Ski Saturday and have a free wax for Sunday...never! And on and on...forever!

There never has been any marketing for June...EVER!


I remember the $10 Wednesdays.[/quote]
Yeah.. that worked out really well. Made you wan't to go every Wednesday :rofl:

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