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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:26 am 
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Kiwi Flat
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NO BULLET TRAIN !!!! Californians can't afford it. And it will triple in price from now before its first slow speed multiple stop trial.
worst idea ever

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:12 pm 
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Climax
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SurfnSnowboard wrote:
LA broke ground on the Purple Line extension along Wilshire Blvd. Amazing that it will take 20+ years to complete and billions of dollars. This first segment is projected to cost $2.8 billion for almost 4 whole miles!


http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/l ... story.html


I was wondering what could possibly explain such a high cost. From the article:

Quote:
Progress on the subway extension came to a halt in the mid-1980s after methane gas leaked from the ground and exploded in a Fairfax clothing store.


That would do it...

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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Latest OP-ED from the San Diego paper which is decidedly anti-HSR project:

Is Gov. Jerry Brown fundamentally incapable of candor when it comes to the state’s troubled $68 billion bullet-train project? That question leaps to mind when reading Brown’s latest remarks to journalists in Sacramento.

The governor suggested Congress — now more implacably anti-bullet train than ever — might change its mind and provide billions of dollars in new federal funding. He suggested Chinese and Japanese investors are eager to assist the California High-Speed Rail Authority — even though six years after passage of the state ballot measure providing $9.95 billion in bond seed money for the $68 billion project, no investors have come forward. Why? Because they expect taxpayer subsidies if ridership or revenue projections fall short, but such subsidies are illegal under state law.

Meanwhile, several potent lawsuits against the project continue. While a state appellate court blocked a trial court ruling and said preliminary work on the project in the Central Valley could continue, the same court upheld the trial court’s finding that the state had to identify “sources of funds that were more than theoretically possible” in explaining how the project’s $31 billion, 300-mile initial operating segment would be built. The appellate judges likened this to a voter-approved “financial straitjacket.”

But this, like all contrary news on the bullet train, is ignored by the governor. Sigh.


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Cornice Bowl
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^ Moonbeam keeps talking about Japan and China like they want to invest in the project - they don't. Rather they are lining up to be the prefered providers of the rail cars. If they wanted to invest they would have done it by now.

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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^^^ I could see them "investing" on the condition that they get the contract. That type of arrangement isn't unusual. Not the same as private investors though.


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Kiwi Flat
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NO BULLET TRAIN !!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:20 am 
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Rodger's Ridge
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While California isn't building anything in Europe they're rolling out a new 200mph train. Imagine this thing going from San Diego to LA in about 30 minutes. It sure would beat flying! Even LA to SF would be better than flying when you could relax on the train and be there in 2 hours.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/13/travel/eu ... ?hpt=hp_c3

Now that's true High Speed Rail!


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:19 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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In the meantime China is tons of new routes that are significantly longer and have higher speed trains than anything planned in California. They get it done while we simply waste millions of dollars.

http://rt.com/business/212719-china-ope ... eed-train/


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:55 am 
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Cornice Bowl
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This, from today's SFGate;

Quote:
proposed hyperloop would link San Francisco and Los Angeles. A cutaway view of the hyperloop, a high-speed transit system...
Image 2 of 3 Photo: Hyperloop Transportation Tech. The proposed "hyperloop" transportation system would whisk people between cities at speeds reaching 760 miles an hour, with travelers riding inside capsules within sealed tubes. Routes would need to be carefully selected. The placement of the tube in this illustration, for example, might raise objections from Bay Area residents, not to mention shipping companies.
The proposed "hyperloop" transportation system would whisk people...
Image 3 of 3 Photo: Hyperloop Transportation Tech. Hyperloop Transportation Technologies wants to build a national high-speed transportation network that would whisk travelers between cities in a series of enclosed tubes, with passengers riding in capsules at 760 miles per hour.
Hyperloop Transportation Technologies wants to build a national...
Startup: Musk’s 'hyperloop’ is feasible and should be nationwidegallery_overlay_close|article-gallery-5966895|article-gallery-5966895|0 Back to Gallerygallery_thumbs_close|article-gallery-5966895|article-gallery-5966895|0 Elon Musk’s proposed “hyperloop” system for whisking travelers between San Francisco and Los Angeles inside elevated tubes is technically feasible and should be expanded into a nationwide network, even though it would cost more per mile than initially thought.

That’s the conclusion of an unusual startup company formed to pursue the idea, Hyperloop Transportation Technologies. The startup, really a collection of unpaid volunteers with day jobs at some of Silicon Valley’s biggest companies, will release an update on its efforts Friday.

So far, the group has found no reason the hyperloop wouldn’t work. As envisioned by Musk, the serial entrepreneur behind Tesla Motors and SpaceX, the system would ferry passengers inside capsules hurtling through sealed tubes at more than 760 mph. Musk pitched the idea last year as an alternative to California’s planned high-speed rail system, which he said would look like Amtrak in comparison.

“We can say that it’s completely feasible,“ said Dirk Ahlborn, CEO of Hyperloop Transportation. “We know we can build it.“

The company on Friday will release an interim feasibility study that fleshes out and refines Musk’s idea. Although Musk suggested the hyperloop could be built for $6 billion — far less than the high-speed rail system’s current $68 billion price tag — Ahlborn and his colleagues say the price would be more like $7 billion to $16 billion for the San Francisco-Los Angeles route.

Still, they argue that the hyperloop shouldn’t be confined to a single route. They suggest building a nationwide network, one that could revolutionize long-distance travel. The system would be fast enough and cheap enough, with tickets costing $20 to $30, that users could live in one metropolitan area and work in another, even if it’s hundreds of miles away.

“It’s not really so much about the technology at this point,“ Ahlborn said. “It’s more about how would we integrate the hyperloop into our daily lives.“

The startup is, in itself, unique.

While Musk came up with the idea, he openly invited other people to develop it, saying he was too busy with Tesla and SpaceX to do so himself.

Ahlborn and his colleagues have pursued the hyperloop idea as a huge crowdsourcing project. While Hyperloop Transportation Technologies is an incorporated company, none of its people are getting paid. Instead, the company’s “core team” consists of more than 100 professionals volunteering their time and expertise in return for a share of the company’s future profits, should any materialize.

The volunteers work at companies including Airbus, Boeing, Cisco Systems, Salesforce, Yahoo — and yes, Tesla and SpaceX. The head of its design team, Craig Hodgetts, teaches architecture and urban design at UCLA and has brought his students into the process, working on station designs. The company actively solicits strangers to critique its ideas and offer their expertise.

“We believe that people, when they get together and they’re passionate about something, money is not always necessary at the beginning,” Ahlborn said.

It will be at some point, however. Right now, the team is trying to refine the concept enough to know exactly how much a prototype would cost. At that point, the company will start raising money. Ahlborn said he has already been approached by venture capitalists interested in funding the project. So far, he has turned them down, he said.

“It’s too early — we don’t know how much money we’ll need,” he said. “It didn’t feel right to take on any money right now.“



In a nutshell, a buch of silicon braniacs took a longer look at the Hyperloop on their own dime and decided it probably will work, but aren't ready to begin funding for a prototype. I don't know about you, but for me that's far better than bulling forward with a system we know CANNOT be built with the funds available. What's more, I'm dying to see a working prototype. It sounds rediculous, but we would end up money FAR ahead if we diverted a $billion to funding the prototype, as the total cost would still be only $17 billion on the high end, vs. $70 billion on the low end for what is breaking ground now. Still, I find it refreshing that Elon Musk, or even this croudsourcing group are NOT asking for any money. In fact, they have been approached by the private investors Brown thinks will materialize for HSR, and they've turned them down!Can you imagine Brown or the High Speed Rail Authority saying, "It’s too early — we don’t know how much money we’ll need, it didn’t feel right to take on any money right now.“ Yet that's the TRUTH!!

Crazy.

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:25 pm 
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Climax
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Here's the link for anyone interested.

I have a very hard time believing that kind of cost disparity between the two systems. In terms of the physical hardware, it should be much cheaper to build and maintain a rail network than an elevated, air-tight tube. The other issues (acquiring land, conducting environmental assessments, etc.) should apply more or less equally to both systems.

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“Oh, yeah, you are going to get nailed.” - Meteorologist Dawn Fishler

"Fishing season starts soon and the ice should be gone and the snow should recede. If it hasn’t, just go skiing." - Dave McCoy


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:03 am 
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Cornice Bowl
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Two things just happened that you probably weren't aware of;
1) The "high speed" rail broke ground
and;
2) You just started paying for it on a regular basis. A tax on the oil refineries just kicked in thanks to AB 32 increasing the price of gas by a minimum of $0.10 / gallon. It's going to go up more, and Jerry has found a way to shuffle the proceeds to the crazy train.

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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Jerry is lucky that the huge drop in oil prices has masked the new "fee" (it can't be a tax since it was approved by voters). I doubt most consumers are even aware of it right now.


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:20 am 
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Center Bowl
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it would have been better to use some of that money to help the people of june by putting back up dave's old tram or another lift gondola thing so more familys will come as the rail thing isn't even a good idea as driving to SF isn't even that bad if your car is good. thanks bye


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:44 pm 
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Climax
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I agree skittles,thanks bye.


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:36 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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While California struggles to build a train that might hit 120mph Japan is already testing a maglev train at 3 times that speed.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/21/asia/japa ... index.html

A HSR going from LA to SF in under 2 hours is something worth building.


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