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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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$700,000 per day and they don't even have a train running yet? Damn I'm in the wrong business!!!

Note to self: figure out how to get some of that $700,000...even 1/10 of 1% would be nice!


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:14 pm 
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Center Bowl
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I'm like OP, a fan of high speed rail, but I voted no on this thing and would again every day and twice on Sunday.

The much larger and more pressing transportation issue for California, and most of the US, is intracity congestion.

Then again, if we continue to ignore the unemployment issue and keep fostering a climate that is decidedly business-unfriendly, the whole issue of urban congestion will likely resolve itself...


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:42 am 
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Rodger's Ridge
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Here's an article talking about plans for the San Diego segment. Already they're mentioning cost increases and the difficultly in building this section. I hope the rest of the segments aren't this difficult to design and build!

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... r-college/


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:32 am 
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Hemlock Ridge
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SurfnSnowboard wrote:
Here's an article talking about plans for the San Diego segment. Already they're mentioning cost increases and the difficultly in building this section. I hope the rest of the segments aren't this difficult to design and build!

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... r-college/



Well at first, I was encouraged to see that they were at least building a leg from LA to San Diego. It might be an expensive fiasco, but at least it will get used, unlike the Central Valley links.

Then, I notice that they're still using an inland route ... away from most of the population. Oy. :fubar:

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:10 am 
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Hemlock Ridge
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More on the boondoggle. It's already 300% over budget, and they haven't built a thing. Can you say "bait and switch?"

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_19236454

And BTW ... my roving reporter in Europe tells me that the stories of inexpensive bullet train travel in Europe is a myth. The trains are, in fact, generally more expensive than the plane flights. She's flying.

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:37 am 
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Dave's Run
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personally I am looking forward to it if it ever does come, I mean com-on if other countries can do and make it work why cant we, wholly molly we are the USA arent we , other peoples have ben doing it for years, RIGHT. I think the usa needs to stand up and say if you can do it we can do it better

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:23 am 
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Dave's Run
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whoa

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:14 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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Quote:
As part of the economic stimulus plan of 2009, Obama pushed through more than $8 billion in initial funding to extend high-speed intercity rail service to 10 major U.S. rail corridors by 2034. The idea is to create superfast rail service — like Japan's futuristic bullet trains — that would be available to 80 percent of the U.S. population.

A quarter of that money — a little more than $2 billion — went to California, where voters in 2008 approved a plan to build a 220-mph line between Los Angeles and San Francisco. The California High Speed Rail Authority promised voters that the line would open in 2020, at an overall price of about $33 billion.

Since then, not a single segment of track has been laid and not a single station has opened.

That 2020 ribbon-cutting? It's now projected to be no earlier than 2033 — at least 13 years late. That $33 billion price tag? It's been recalculated at $98.5 billion — nearly three times the original estimate.


Obama's Rail Initiative a 'Train to Nowhere'?

If the price has tripled in 2 years before anything has been built just imagine what the cost will end up being in 2033.

How do you spell 'boondoggle'? H I G H S P E E D R A I L

Just to be clear I'm not against HSR. I think it's a great idea. I'm solidly against the way it's being done in California though. For example, LA to San Diego should be a straight shot, not through the IE. It should be faster and easier than flying or driving, not longer. A minimum number of stops, downtown LA to downtown San Diego in an hour or less at a reasonable cost.


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:59 pm 
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Kiwi Flat
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Now is not the time to waste money.

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:45 pm 
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Rodger's Ridge
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I can't find much to disagree with in news story:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... rail-vote/

Choice quotes:

“I would suggest with the new numbers that the complete facts now in the business plan be presented to voters again to let them see all of the numbers and the costs,” said Assemblyman Martin Garrick, R-Solana Beach. “Voters should be aware of the obligation they will be taking on, the cost they will be burdening their children with. I think it should go back to a vote of the people.

The 800-mile line was presented to voters in 2008 to connect the Bay Area to San Diego. The ballot language contained no price tag, but estimates given by the California High-Speed Rail Authority during the campaign ranged from $33 billion to $45 billion.

The revised business plan, released this month, puts cost estimates between $98.5 billion and $118 billion if completed by 2033 for a line that is 35 percent shorter, connecting San Francisco to Anaheim.


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:01 pm 
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Kiwi Flat
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NO !!! Don't need it. Don't want it. Can't afford it. Just say NO !!

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:36 pm 
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Dave's Run
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skimike wrote:
personally I am looking forward to it if it ever does come, I mean com-on if other countries can do and make it work why cant we, wholly molly we are the USA arent we , other peoples have ben doing it for years, RIGHT. I think the usa needs to stand up and say if you can do it we can do it better


the big differance is - other countries and cities actualy plan them correctly -
not Fresno to Sacramento as a first leg - la, we have subways that ALMOST go to the airport (SD for that matter), almost to the beach etc.

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Dave's Run
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SkierBob wrote:
M2M wrote:
Biker395 wrote:
SkierBob wrote:
Not only will it never pay for itself. It will never operate in black ink.

It's nothing but a money pit


I still shake my head at that project, and I'm still amazed that a majority of Californians thought it was a good idea. We're nearly bankrupt ... shortening the school year and laying off teachers ... and our credit rating is crap. In that environment, we're taking on a massive public works project that no one needs and no one asked for. And I might add, a project that when it is completed, will offer less convenient and lengthier travel times to the endpoints and will be hyper-vulnerable to terrorist attacks.

Someone ... anyone ... explain to me why the project, as currently defined at least, is a good idea. I really want to know.


because " we're saving the planet",
don't ya know

put anything that "saves the planet, the kids, the marsh smelt" and californians will vote for it -
never mind that there are 100's of flights a day chris crossing the state, we have to " save the planet"


The fact is anything that would actually pay for itself and make a buck is built by private Entrepreneurs. Pretty much everything that would never make a profit and continues to be a money pit for the life of the operation is done by local, state, and federal governments at the expense of taxpayers.



this pretty much sums it up !

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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:50 am 
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Cornice Bowl
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M2M wrote:
SkierBob wrote:
M2M wrote:
Biker395 wrote:
SkierBob wrote:
Not only will it never pay for itself. It will never operate in black ink.

It's nothing but a money pit


I still shake my head at that project, and I'm still amazed that a majority of Californians thought it was a good idea. We're nearly bankrupt ... shortening the school year and laying off teachers ... and our credit rating is crap. In that environment, we're taking on a massive public works project that no one needs and no one asked for. And I might add, a project that when it is completed, will offer less convenient and lengthier travel times to the endpoints and will be hyper-vulnerable to terrorist attacks.

Someone ... anyone ... explain to me why the project, as currently defined at least, is a good idea. I really want to know.


because " we're saving the planet",
don't ya know

put anything that "saves the planet, the kids, the marsh smelt" and californians will vote for it -
never mind that there are 100's of flights a day chris crossing the state, we have to " save the planet"


The fact is anything that would actually pay for itself and make a buck is built by private Entrepreneurs. Pretty much everything that would never make a profit and continues to be a money pit for the life of the operation is done by local, state, and federal governments at the expense of taxpayers.



this pretty much sums it up !

What the hell. If the state is going to go BK why not just throw everything in!! It's almost like the elected people are still in 2005-2006 where money is everywhere and flowing in fast. I'm a huge train fan but there is NOT a single public train system in the WORLD that is cash flow positive.


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 Post subject: Re: The High Speed Rail boondoggle
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Dragon's Back
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The high speed rail is nothing more then the democrats paying back the unions for their campaign contributions. I haven’t met a single person that thought it would ever pay for itself. Maybe, just maybe if it ran between the Southland and Las Vegas, but then it would be nothing more then a pipeline for California dollars leaving the State.

:lol:


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